Two Player Pairing - Guild Wars Forums

Elisabet · Jun 03, 2011, 04:49 PM // 16:49

My husband and I just broke a 6 year WoW addiction and picked up GW1 last week in anticipation of GW2 to work on the HoM. Absolutely love it and wish we'd started playing sooner!

We're working our way through Prophecies atm and as our intent eventually is to do all the hard-modes, what we've noticed so far is that the henchman healer AI is somewhat lacking in the 'I'.

Now that may not be true for the heros where there's more control, but it still feels like a human healer might be preferable for managing aggro.

We're currently playing a Mes/E and a E/Mes (we're 13, and just reached Yak's Bend). What I'm wondering is would we be better off with a Mes/E and Mo/E combo instead as we work our way through the HoM stuff if we're using heros/henchmen in our party the majority of the time? Normally I'd raise both and play around with it, but just don't have the time to play two characters right now.

I've been a healer for the past 10 years in MMOs, but I'm finding healing without the ability to mouse-over a bit frustrating, which is why I chose DPS. So if we went that route we'd probably use 2 healers, me and one hero/hench so I could sort of hybrid heal/dps. If the above pairing is more viable, is having 2 healers in the party feasible for most encounters or will we be lacking too much in the DPS department?

Ghull Ka · Jun 03, 2011, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Power Creep has affected Guild Wars a bit. People usually do more DPS than they need to. Things have been buffed on a regular basis.

Go ahead and use the two healer setup. You'll do plenty DPS.

Part of the trouble with the healer AI is that they're equipped with skills that they can't use very smartly. Healing Touch is great when you have someone near you... You're a human and you reserve its use for close-by targets. But the AI says "oh look a touch-range healing skill! i will run up to the warrior to spam it!!" Bad healer.

Later on in the game you will get heroes to replace the henchmen. Heroes have fully customizable skill bars, so you can give them skills that they won't screw up. They'll be much more effective then.

anonymous · Jun 03, 2011, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Play whichever one you prefer. You won't be better off or worse off either way. If you both want to heal, your heroes will deal enough damage to kill everything. If you both want to deal damage, your heroes can keep you alive. If you want a mix, that will work too.

gremlin · Jun 03, 2011, 06:03 PM // 18:03

I find the problem with henchmen is that they try to follow the party actions and the healers especially can end up running from player to player and back again before they can cast anything.

If you stick together and attack the same targets it works pretty well.
When you get heroes of course then each player can have their own heroes and its not so much of a problem.

2 Monks well I don't think you need to do that but having them wouldn't hurt too much.
I think your up to 6 person parties at that point so you can still take on the missions.

I am lucky in that I bought the pack that gave me the ignious summoning stone so till I reach lvl 20 I get a mad fire imp of my level to back up my party.

Bristlebane · Jun 03, 2011, 06:47 PM // 18:47

This early in game, it's more important to experiment and try things you find more fun, rather than trying to find what's most optimal. Once you're both at level 20, then it's time to try focus more actively on serious builds. But by that time you've had the chance to try out a bit of everything and hopefully found what roles you prefer better.

englanda · Jun 03, 2011, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Another option you have is to play a profession that can do both. Both elementalists and necromancers are good DPS, but they can also turn into some of the best healers around. Their primary attributes makes their energy management the best around, which you'll know from playing wow, is better than throughput. Mostly.

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:E/Mo_ER_Infuse_Bonder
http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:N/Rt_SoLS_Healer

Quaker · Jun 03, 2011, 07:37 PM // 19:37

13 is too young to be married.

Since you are at the point where you have only 6 in a party, you sort of want to have 1.5 healers. I usually do that with a Hero that is half MM, half Healer. Another way would be for 1 of you to be half a healer, but neither of you have Monk as a secondary. And, if I recall, you only have 1 healer henchman available, so.... you're screwed.

Actually, you could re-roll as an E/Mo and change your secondary to Me (or whatever) later. But, more realistically, you will just need to use a henchie Monk and be more careful with pulling and agro. Soon enough you will be to the point where you can have 8 players in a party and then 2 healers is the norm.

Note #1. You can change your secondary after you ascend, which is still a ways off from where you are.

Note #2. When you get to Lion's Arch, you can travel to Nightfall or EotN (if you have them) and pick up some heroes.

Note #3. You can upgrade your armor in Yak's Bend. That will help your survivability.

Iuris · Jun 03, 2011, 08:07 PM // 20:07

I never had a problem with henchmen AI myself and have done everything with just the AI healers provided among the henchmen. Really.

Anyway, a human healer is perfectly acceptable, but here you will have issues with henchmen AI, as the henchmen tend to try to always attack your target, and healers don't have targets selected most of the time...

chuckles79 · Jun 03, 2011, 09:04 PM // 21:04

At level 13, at Yak's Bend is a difficult part of the Prophecies campaign. The enemies are tougher than they have been and progress will be slow.

Any profession will have difficulties in that area, at that level.

I would recommend finding some guildies that might help you with some of the grindier parts of the area, and help you get the skill quests in the region.

Even one lvl 20 buddy can help with the more troublesome aspects of the area, I went as a bunny thumper (ranger with a hammer) as a joke to help some alliance members through the area, and we still had no problems.

Kook~NBK~ · Jun 03, 2011, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Welcome to Guild Wars. I see you've met Aleshia. Other Monk henchmen that you'll meet later on aren't nearly as bad. But they're still not as good as well set up Heroes (that's true for all professions.)

If you want to roll a Monk and handle healing yourselves, go ahead. Being new players, you may want to hold off on you Mesmer, since one of the keys to playing that profession well is knowing and understanding the enemies and their skills/capabilities.

BTW - At Yak's Bend, the difficulty level jumps up a bit and one of the pit-falls that many new players encounter there is taking all the quests at once and causing boat-loads of enemies to spawn on top of each other in Traveller's Vale. I strongly suggest you take those quests one a a time.

Urcscumug · Jun 04, 2011, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Here's a few notes in no particular order:

* I don't see the point in recommending an ER infuser bar or a Rt bar to a couple of beginners in Yak's. They don't have neither ER nor a Rt.

* If you did the Althea quests and came on foot via Ascalon Foothills then the areas after Yak's are perfectly in tone with the skill level you should be at around now. But if you came via the Nolani mission then yeah, it's gonna be a bit of a shock. And you're not gonna like the Frost Gate mission. :/

* As a rule of thumb, the number of Monk henchies in an outpost it's how many are needed for the area.

* Prophecies was designed to be played with exactly the henchies you see in the outposts (no heroes). You've already got an advantage since you're using two live players. So man it up.

* Alesia doesn't have touch healing skills. (I don't think any of the monk henchies in the entire game has any, though I may be wrong.) Her only touch skill is Restore Life, the res. She's running around because she's kiting. Which means the melee aren't doing a perfect job. Which is to be expected since they're AI too. Try calling targets, it helps.

* Bad hero bars will be even worse than henchies. The AI is the same.

* Don't underestimate GW just because you're WoW veterans (with apologies if you weren't doing that). Reconsider your party formations carefully and consider reading some of the beginner guides in the profession sections on the forum if you haven't already. You may also be interested in this guide; not suggesting you reroll, but it might give you some fresh perspective.

* Since you're E and Me, take from Yak's the 2 melee, Alesia and your choice of Claude or Reyna. Normally you shouldn't need Dunham since you have a mesmer (plus he's very squishy, so's Claude). But I have this nagging suspicion that you didn't get any hex removal skills. You're gonna want one pretty soon (if not in Anvil Rock then in Kryta). BTW, the ele is also missing some cool skills if you haven't fully explored the quests and outposts before Yak's.

* Generally speaking, don't expect to do much with your second profession with the skills you've got. Or even later. Spreading attribute points too thin aside, a 13 ele and mesmer in Yak's have enough on their plate without trying to be a monk at the same time. You have your own specific skills if you want to provide party protection. It's true there are hybrid bars out there, but they're usually part of specialized teams, put together by experienced players, and/or designed for specific areas.

* Don't try to beat the game senseless, just go with the flow.

It's easy enough, no need to get heroes and whatnot. Learn to work together, to work with the henchies, don't jump over entire areas, there's no hurry. Do all the quests and let the game lead you, it's the most enjoyable way. Have fun.

*Darcy* · Jun 04, 2011, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Urcscumug has given you great advice. Visit the appropriate sub forums in the Campfire section and read up on your profession in the stickied basics thread. And Kook's mention of the quest problem is very accurate - don't take more than one quest at a time. You can bring up your Quest Log and abandon any extras. They can be retaken as needed.

There are always shortcuts in every game, but it doesn't let you learn the game. Prophecies was designed to slowly teach you how to play. Your skill access is sufficient for the area you are at. The henchmen, while not perfect, will get you through the whole campaign as long as you plan out your attacks and use caution in the execution.

Don't over aggro; use a longbow to pull when possible
Watch the patrols
Take out some enemies from the rear of the area when possible

Elisabet · Jun 05, 2011, 07:42 AM // 07:42

I just want to say this community is amazing, and cannot tell you how much I appreciate the well thought out responses.

TLDR version is I did choose after reading your comments and researching more to switch to Mo/E... am loving it atm.. but we'll see if that holds. I do a LOT of our damage via Ele fire spells ... probably not a nice monkly choice.

@Ghull Ka
We knew the hero changes were coming for us eventually, the AI irritation is the healer running around in circles like mad when under attack. Not her running up to mobs.. but her desire to then run away from them The healer AI seems to take kiting to a farther and more dangerous distance with a flag down than any of the other henchmen. That being said, I've been working on managing flag placement better, but even so, I did finally opt to go monk as well and find myself dropping ~75% of my heals on her :P

@Bristlebane
Preaching to the choir.. we've been trying to experience the game as 'newbies' as much as possible. We explore every inch of territory, we don't do missions until WE find the entrance portal (even after the previous mission sends us there, we backtrack and don't do the mission until we discover the portal via land), only reference the wiki when we're trying to figure out what to save or sell, etc. I'm loving my Monk/Ele build now.. my guess is it will fall apart later on

@Quaker
Thanks for the tips.. the 1.5 healer was what I thought we should try. And yeah.. if we WERE 13 irl .. would be WAY too young.. let's just say, we're FAR, FAR beyond spring chickens. Old as dirt might be more apropos.

@Kook~NBK~
Hubby is a glutton for punishment.. looks for tough classes first in any new game, Before we started he read up on Mes and threw himself in. We took all the quests in Yak's before I saw this post and had a blast figuring out everything.

@Urcscumug
We've done EVERY quest we could find and got everywhere by foot on purpose.. we certainly don't underestimate anything in GW (except for the terribad UI) coming from WoW :P Entering 6 years late, it is absolutely daunting what I need to learn to play this game well, but I'm amazed at it's complexity and how well done it is. As I said, I wish I'd picked it up sooner! Is funny, we have 2 pre-sear toons we're working on to get the LDoA and learned SO much about the AI just from that. So far I think this game is challenging and WAY cool

@Darcy
Agreed! We bought the 3-pack, but have been working through Proph first and not skipping ahead. Not looking for shortcuts at all, we just wondered since I enjoyed both Ele and Mo without the time to play both, what you guys thought.

I can't thank you all enough for taking the time to respond.

Urcscumug · Jun 05, 2011, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Well it looks like you covered all the angles so really the only thing left is to wish you a good time.

Oh, and one last piece of advice. Whenever you have a choice to make in GW PvE, the right answer is: "whatever looks like the most fun".

And I mean anything, no matter how silly it might seem and what conventional wisdom has to say about it. If you want to run around naked equipped only with "Can't Touch This!", go right ahead.

Elisabet · Jun 05, 2011, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Thanks Urc.. I was having a little newbie stress, so we ran Borlis Pass once with me as E/Mes and then again with me as Mo/E and by the end of it had so much more fun with me backing up poor Alesia. :P

Learning to move the henchmen around and position them is super interesting.. cannot fathom what I'll need to learn to do the same with heroes.

In the end, . I'm having more fun than I've had in the last 3 years of MMOs playing GW1.

So now my only concern is that I keep falling back into healing roles even when I TRY to stop.. I really like healing.. will I be happy in GW2 dumping the triad?

Emmerich · Jun 05, 2011, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Hi all - I'm the hubby!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

Welcome to Guild Wars. I see you've met Aleshia. Other Monk henchmen that you'll meet later on aren't nearly as bad. But they're still not as good as well set up Heroes (that's true for all professions.)

That made me laugh out loud, as that's exactly who we're annoyed with.

Quote:

If you want to roll a Monk and handle healing yourselves, go ahead. Being new players, you may want to hold off on you Mesmer, since one of the keys to playing that profession well is knowing and understanding the enemies and their skills/capabilities.

I'm the Mesmer, and I can certainly see your point - my play GREATLY improves after I've been in an area for a bit and understand what the mobs do. Still, I'm loving the challenge (most of the time...occasional bursts of foul language come out when I hit new areas

)

Quote:

BTW - At Yak's Bend, the difficulty level jumps up a bit and one of the pit-falls that many new players encounter there is taking all the quests at once and causing boat-loads of enemies to spawn on top of each other in Traveller's Vale. I strongly suggest you take those quests one a a time.

Wow, wish we had read this before we did YB - that is EXACTLY what happened to us. We got through it though...fortunately dying has never been a big deal to us.

Thanks everyone for the tips & suggestions - we're really enjoying this game and have been reading everything we can!

Quaker · Jun 05, 2011, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elisabet

So now my only concern is that I keep falling back into healing roles even when I TRY to stop.. I really like healing.. will I be happy in GW2 dumping the triad?

I suspect that some people will concentrate on healing in GW2 anyway.

One thing you might want to play around with, as an Mo/E, is Smiting Prayers. A smiting Monk might not deal as much damage as other casters, but it depends of course on the available skills, energy usage, etc.. With the proper headpiece and Rune, you can get up to 16 in SP as opposed to only 12 in any Ele attribute (with Ele as secondary).

I'll bet you're not as old - relative to people on this forum - as you think you are.

Emmerich · Jun 05, 2011, 01:46 PM // 13:46

By the way - I have NO illusions - I'm a TERRIBLE Mesmer at the moment! I'm getting better though...it's a tough class to play (IMO).

Urcscumug · Jun 05, 2011, 03:29 PM // 15:29

GW2 is anybody's guess at the moment. There's also a GW2 guru forum if you want to speculate on that.

Since you enjoy monking yourself, Elisabet, let me outline two possibilities. They're both valuable, teach you useful things, and frankly you should try both:

1) Get rid of Alesia on occasions and be full time monk. You should be able to outdo her. But don't go full healing, start looking into hybrid bars. These are bars that hold a mix of healing, protection and hex/condition removal. A simplistic hybrid bar would hold 2 healing spells, 2 protection spells, a hex and a condition removal, a hard res and an utility (/E usually go for Glyph of Lesser Energy).

Protection spells are interesting because they focus on preventing or mitigating damage rather than patching it up afterwards, but in exchange they require that you pay attention to the battle and foresee where the next damage will land. An /E also has some interesting protection spells in the Earth line, particularly wards.

1') The smiting is also interesting, but not necessarily outright for the damage skills (although those can come in handy) but for the various buffs you can put on your melee.

2) If you take Alesia, try to complement her build instead of outright duplicating it. Try to focus more on what she does not do, like protection, hex/cond removal etc. This will be a great oportunity to start practicing the fine art of balancing two monk bars, which you will have to do anyway later on. It's a somewhat delicate task, depends a lot of the specifics of each zone.

Since you brought up heroes -- using them will borrow the basics of flagging and learning to work with the AI from the henchies. But in addition you will be able to decide their bars, and that requires decent knowledge of their primary profession. As luck would have it, by the time you get to Lion's Arch you should have that knowledge for Monk, Mesmer and Elementalist. Coincidentally, a quick trip to Eye of the North will grant you those exact heroes.

On the flip side, I personally think Prophecies is simple enough in Normal Mode that you don't technically need heroes of any kind, especially if you have 2 humans. Furthermore, having duplicate roles in the team will tax your ability to balance bars.

Try them on and decide for yourself. But I recommend limiting yourselves to those and not picking up even more heroes from Nightfall -- it tends to become overwhelming if you know nothing of those professions (W, N, R, D); plus it'd be extremely overpowered for Prophecies and tends to ruin the fun if you just roll over everything.

@Emmerich: practice your interrupts. And if you guys ever meet a particular hero that might try to steal your job on the team, don't let her. ^^

Emmerich · Jun 05, 2011, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

@Emmerich: practice your interrupts.

Yeah, some of those mob casts are FAST!

Currently I run:
Power Spike - To interrupt obviously
Fragility - I like to pull with this unless I have any concern about additional groups
Empathy -Try to debuff any melee on my healers
Backfire -Toss on any caster I'm not focused on for interrupting
Shatter Delusions - Nice for finishing them off or occasionally for good AoE if the mob stays grouped up
Ether Feast - The least useful from what I've seen so far, but I like having an "oh shit" heal.

Aura of Restoration - Heal me every time I cast? Mmmm

Power Spike's on a 12 second (as adjusted by Fast Casting I presume) timer, so that's generally been enough to keep things somewhat under control. The only other interrupt I even have access to right now is Power Leak, but it's on a 20 second timer so less helpful, or so it seems.

The biggest habit I've been trying to break myself of after years in WoW is the ABCs of mage play - as "always be casting" doesn't really seem to work out too well in GW

Jun 03, 2011, 07:37 PM // 19:37	#7
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	13 is too young to be married. Since you are at the point where you have only 6 in a party, you sort of want to have 1.5 healers. I usually do that with a Hero that is half MM, half Healer. Another way would be for 1 of you to be half a healer, but neither of you have Monk as a secondary. And, if I recall, you only have 1 healer henchman available, so.... you're screwed. Actually, you could re-roll as an E/Mo and change your secondary to Me (or whatever) later. But, more realistically, you will just need to use a henchie Monk and be more careful with pulling and agro. Soon enough you will be to the point where you can have 8 players in a party and then 2 healers is the norm. Note #1. You can change your secondary after you ascend, which is still a ways off from where you are. Note #2. When you get to Lion's Arch, you can travel to Nightfall or EotN (if you have them) and pick up some heroes. Note #3. You can upgrade your armor in Yak's Bend. That will help your survivability. Last edited by Quaker; Jun 04, 2011 at 01:48 PM // 13:48..

Jun 04, 2011, 02:18 AM // 02:18	#11
Urcscumug Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2011 Guild: UNO Profession: W/	Here's a few notes in no particular order: * I don't see the point in recommending an ER infuser bar or a Rt bar to a couple of beginners in Yak's. They don't have neither ER nor a Rt. * If you did the Althea quests and came on foot via Ascalon Foothills then the areas after Yak's are perfectly in tone with the skill level you should be at around now. But if you came via the Nolani mission then yeah, it's gonna be a bit of a shock. And you're not gonna like the Frost Gate mission. :/ * As a rule of thumb, the number of Monk henchies in an outpost it's how many are needed for the area. * Prophecies was designed to be played with exactly the henchies you see in the outposts (no heroes). You've already got an advantage since you're using two live players. So man it up. * Alesia doesn't have touch healing skills. (I don't think any of the monk henchies in the entire game has any, though I may be wrong.) Her only touch skill is Restore Life, the res. She's running around because she's kiting. Which means the melee aren't doing a perfect job. Which is to be expected since they're AI too. Try calling targets, it helps. * Bad hero bars will be even worse than henchies. The AI is the same. * Don't underestimate GW just because you're WoW veterans (with apologies if you weren't doing that). Reconsider your party formations carefully and consider reading some of the beginner guides in the profession sections on the forum if you haven't already. You may also be interested in this guide; not suggesting you reroll, but it might give you some fresh perspective. * Since you're E and Me, take from Yak's the 2 melee, Alesia and your choice of Claude or Reyna. Normally you shouldn't need Dunham since you have a mesmer (plus he's very squishy, so's Claude). But I have this nagging suspicion that you didn't get any hex removal skills. You're gonna want one pretty soon (if not in Anvil Rock then in Kryta). BTW, the ele is also missing some cool skills if you haven't fully explored the quests and outposts before Yak's. * Generally speaking, don't expect to do much with your second profession with the skills you've got. Or even later. Spreading attribute points too thin aside, a 13 ele and mesmer in Yak's have enough on their plate without trying to be a monk at the same time. You have your own specific skills if you want to provide party protection. It's true there are hybrid bars out there, but they're usually part of specialized teams, put together by experienced players, and/or designed for specific areas. * Don't try to beat the game senseless, just go with the flow. It's easy enough, no need to get heroes and whatnot. Learn to work together, to work with the henchies, don't jump over entire areas, there's no hurry. Do all the quests and let the game lead you, it's the most enjoyable way. Have fun. Last edited by Urcscumug; Jun 04, 2011 at 02:40 AM // 02:40..

Jun 05, 2011, 07:42 AM // 07:42	#13
Elisabet Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2011	I just want to say this community is amazing, and cannot tell you how much I appreciate the well thought out responses. TLDR version is I did choose after reading your comments and researching more to switch to Mo/E... am loving it atm.. but we'll see if that holds. I do a LOT of our damage via Ele fire spells ... probably not a nice monkly choice. @Ghull Ka We knew the hero changes were coming for us eventually, the AI irritation is the healer running around in circles like mad when under attack. Not her running up to mobs.. but her desire to then run away from them The healer AI seems to take kiting to a farther and more dangerous distance with a flag down than any of the other henchmen. That being said, I've been working on managing flag placement better, but even so, I did finally opt to go monk as well and find myself dropping ~75% of my heals on her :P @Bristlebane Preaching to the choir.. we've been trying to experience the game as 'newbies' as much as possible. We explore every inch of territory, we don't do missions until WE find the entrance portal (even after the previous mission sends us there, we backtrack and don't do the mission until we discover the portal via land), only reference the wiki when we're trying to figure out what to save or sell, etc. I'm loving my Monk/Ele build now.. my guess is it will fall apart later on @Quaker Thanks for the tips.. the 1.5 healer was what I thought we should try. And yeah.. if we WERE 13 irl .. would be WAY too young.. let's just say, we're FAR, FAR beyond spring chickens. Old as dirt might be more apropos. @Kook~NBK~ Hubby is a glutton for punishment.. looks for tough classes first in any new game, Before we started he read up on Mes and threw himself in. We took all the quests in Yak's before I saw this post and had a blast figuring out everything. @Urcscumug We've done EVERY quest we could find and got everywhere by foot on purpose.. we certainly don't underestimate anything in GW (except for the terribad UI) coming from WoW :P Entering 6 years late, it is absolutely daunting what I need to learn to play this game well, but I'm amazed at it's complexity and how well done it is. As I said, I wish I'd picked it up sooner! Is funny, we have 2 pre-sear toons we're working on to get the LDoA and learned SO much about the AI just from that. So far I think this game is challenging and WAY cool @Darcy Agreed! We bought the 3-pack, but have been working through Proph first and not skipping ahead. Not looking for shortcuts at all, we just wondered since I enjoyed both Ele and Mo without the time to play both, what you guys thought. I can't thank you all enough for taking the time to respond. Last edited by Elisabet; Jun 05, 2011 at 08:55 AM // 08:55..

Jun 05, 2011, 10:29 AM // 10:29	#14
Urcscumug Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2011 Guild: UNO Profession: W/	Well it looks like you covered all the angles so really the only thing left is to wish you a good time. Oh, and one last piece of advice. Whenever you have a choice to make in GW PvE, the right answer is: "whatever looks like the most fun". And I mean anything, no matter how silly it might seem and what conventional wisdom has to say about it. If you want to run around naked equipped only with "Can't Touch This!", go right ahead. Last edited by Urcscumug; Jun 05, 2011 at 10:32 AM // 10:32..

Jun 03, 2011, 04:49 PM // 16:49	#1
Elisabet Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2011	Two Player Pairing My husband and I just broke a 6 year WoW addiction and picked up GW1 last week in anticipation of GW2 to work on the HoM. Absolutely love it and wish we'd started playing sooner! We're working our way through Prophecies atm and as our intent eventually is to do all the hard-modes, what we've noticed so far is that the henchman healer AI is somewhat lacking in the 'I'. Now that may not be true for the heros where there's more control, but it still feels like a human healer might be preferable for managing aggro. We're currently playing a Mes/E and a E/Mes (we're 13, and just reached Yak's Bend). What I'm wondering is would we be better off with a Mes/E and Mo/E combo instead as we work our way through the HoM stuff if we're using heros/henchmen in our party the majority of the time? Normally I'd raise both and play around with it, but just don't have the time to play two characters right now. I've been a healer for the past 10 years in MMOs, but I'm finding healing without the ability to mouse-over a bit frustrating, which is why I chose DPS. So if we went that route we'd probably use 2 healers, me and one hero/hench so I could sort of hybrid heal/dps. If the above pairing is more viable, is having 2 healers in the party feasible for most encounters or will we be lacking too much in the DPS department?

Jun 03, 2011, 05:22 PM // 17:22	#2
Ghull Ka Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Guild: Grenths Helpdesk Profession: N/	Power Creep has affected Guild Wars a bit. People usually do more DPS than they need to. Things have been buffed on a regular basis. Go ahead and use the two healer setup. You'll do plenty DPS. Part of the trouble with the healer AI is that they're equipped with skills that they can't use very smartly. Healing Touch is great when you have someone near you... You're a human and you reserve its use for close-by targets. But the AI says "oh look a touch-range healing skill! i will run up to the warrior to spam it!!" Bad healer. Later on in the game you will get heroes to replace the henchmen. Heroes have fully customizable skill bars, so you can give them skills that they won't screw up. They'll be much more effective then. Last edited by Ghull Ka; Jun 03, 2011 at 05:28 PM // 17:28..

Jun 03, 2011, 06:01 PM // 18:01	#3
anonymous Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2006	Play whichever one you prefer. You won't be better off or worse off either way. If you both want to heal, your heroes will deal enough damage to kill everything. If you both want to deal damage, your heroes can keep you alive. If you want a mix, that will work too.

Jun 03, 2011, 06:03 PM // 18:03	#4
gremlin Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: GWAR Profession: Me/Mo	I find the problem with henchmen is that they try to follow the party actions and the healers especially can end up running from player to player and back again before they can cast anything. If you stick together and attack the same targets it works pretty well. When you get heroes of course then each player can have their own heroes and its not so much of a problem. 2 Monks well I don't think you need to do that but having them wouldn't hurt too much. I think your up to 6 person parties at that point so you can still take on the missions. I am lucky in that I bought the pack that gave me the ignious summoning stone so till I reach lvl 20 I get a mad fire imp of my level to back up my party.

Jun 03, 2011, 06:47 PM // 18:47	#5
Bristlebane Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2008 Profession: Mo/	This early in game, it's more important to experiment and try things you find more fun, rather than trying to find what's most optimal. Once you're both at level 20, then it's time to try focus more actively on serious builds. But by that time you've had the chance to try out a bit of everything and hopefully found what roles you prefer better.

Jun 03, 2011, 07:00 PM // 19:00	#6
englanda Academy Page Join Date: Mar 2009 Guild: Project Cuddle Puddle [PCP] Profession: Rt/Me	Another option you have is to play a profession that can do both. Both elementalists and necromancers are good DPS, but they can also turn into some of the best healers around. Their primary attributes makes their energy management the best around, which you'll know from playing wow, is better than throughput. Mostly. http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:E/Mo_ER_Infuse_Bonder http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:N/Rt_SoLS_Healer

Jun 03, 2011, 08:07 PM // 20:07	#8
Iuris Forge Runner Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Crazy ducks from the Forest Profession: W/	I never had a problem with henchmen AI myself and have done everything with just the AI healers provided among the henchmen. Really. Anyway, a human healer is perfectly acceptable, but here you will have issues with henchmen AI, as the henchmen tend to try to always attack your target, and healers don't have targets selected most of the time...

Jun 03, 2011, 09:04 PM // 21:04	#9
chuckles79 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Mar 2009 Guild: FILA Profession: P/	At level 13, at Yak's Bend is a difficult part of the Prophecies campaign. The enemies are tougher than they have been and progress will be slow. Any profession will have difficulties in that area, at that level. I would recommend finding some guildies that might help you with some of the grindier parts of the area, and help you get the skill quests in the region. Even one lvl 20 buddy can help with the more troublesome aspects of the area, I went as a bunny thumper (ranger with a hammer) as a joke to help some alliance members through the area, and we still had no problems.

Jun 03, 2011, 09:06 PM // 21:06	#10
Kook~NBK~ Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: A little chalet outside Drok's Guild: Natural Born Killaz	Welcome to Guild Wars. I see you've met Aleshia. Other Monk henchmen that you'll meet later on aren't nearly as bad. But they're still not as good as well set up Heroes (that's true for all professions.) If you want to roll a Monk and handle healing yourselves, go ahead. Being new players, you may want to hold off on you Mesmer, since one of the keys to playing that profession well is knowing and understanding the enemies and their skills/capabilities. BTW - At Yak's Bend, the difficulty level jumps up a bit and one of the pit-falls that many new players encounter there is taking all the quests at once and causing boat-loads of enemies to spawn on top of each other in Traveller's Vale. I strongly suggest you take those quests one a a time.

Jun 04, 2011, 12:06 PM // 12:06	#12
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	Urcscumug has given you great advice. Visit the appropriate sub forums in the Campfire section and read up on your profession in the stickied basics thread. And Kook's mention of the quest problem is very accurate - don't take more than one quest at a time. You can bring up your Quest Log and abandon any extras. They can be retaken as needed. There are always shortcuts in every game, but it doesn't let you learn the game. Prophecies was designed to slowly teach you how to play. Your skill access is sufficient for the area you are at. The henchmen, while not perfect, will get you through the whole campaign as long as you plan out your attacks and use caution in the execution. Don't over aggro; use a longbow to pull when possible Watch the patrols Take out some enemies from the rear of the area when possible

Jun 05, 2011, 10:46 AM // 10:46	#15
Elisabet Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2011	Thanks Urc.. I was having a little newbie stress, so we ran Borlis Pass once with me as E/Mes and then again with me as Mo/E and by the end of it had so much more fun with me backing up poor Alesia. :P Learning to move the henchmen around and position them is super interesting.. cannot fathom what I'll need to learn to do the same with heroes. In the end, . I'm having more fun than I've had in the last 3 years of MMOs playing GW1. So now my only concern is that I keep falling back into healing roles even when I TRY to stop.. I really like healing.. will I be happy in GW2 dumping the triad?

Jun 05, 2011, 01:46 PM // 13:46	#18
Emmerich Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2011 Profession: Me/E	By the way - I have NO illusions - I'm a TERRIBLE Mesmer at the moment! I'm getting better though...it's a tough class to play (IMO).

Jun 05, 2011, 03:29 PM // 15:29	#19
Urcscumug Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2011 Guild: UNO Profession: W/	GW2 is anybody's guess at the moment. There's also a GW2 guru forum if you want to speculate on that. Since you enjoy monking yourself, Elisabet, let me outline two possibilities. They're both valuable, teach you useful things, and frankly you should try both: 1) Get rid of Alesia on occasions and be full time monk. You should be able to outdo her. But don't go full healing, start looking into hybrid bars. These are bars that hold a mix of healing, protection and hex/condition removal. A simplistic hybrid bar would hold 2 healing spells, 2 protection spells, a hex and a condition removal, a hard res and an utility (/E usually go for Glyph of Lesser Energy). Protection spells are interesting because they focus on preventing or mitigating damage rather than patching it up afterwards, but in exchange they require that you pay attention to the battle and foresee where the next damage will land. An /E also has some interesting protection spells in the Earth line, particularly wards. 1') The smiting is also interesting, but not necessarily outright for the damage skills (although those can come in handy) but for the various buffs you can put on your melee. 2) If you take Alesia, try to complement her build instead of outright duplicating it. Try to focus more on what she does not do, like protection, hex/cond removal etc. This will be a great oportunity to start practicing the fine art of balancing two monk bars, which you will have to do anyway later on. It's a somewhat delicate task, depends a lot of the specifics of each zone. Since you brought up heroes -- using them will borrow the basics of flagging and learning to work with the AI from the henchies. But in addition you will be able to decide their bars, and that requires decent knowledge of their primary profession. As luck would have it, by the time you get to Lion's Arch you should have that knowledge for Monk, Mesmer and Elementalist. Coincidentally, a quick trip to Eye of the North will grant you those exact heroes. On the flip side, I personally think Prophecies is simple enough in Normal Mode that you don't technically need heroes of any kind, especially if you have 2 humans. Furthermore, having duplicate roles in the team will tax your ability to balance bars. Try them on and decide for yourself. But I recommend limiting yourselves to those and not picking up even more heroes from Nightfall -- it tends to become overwhelming if you know nothing of those professions (W, N, R, D); plus it'd be extremely overpowered for Prophecies and tends to ruin the fun if you just roll over everything. @Emmerich: practice your interrupts. And if you guys ever meet a particular hero that might try to steal your job on the team, don't let her. ^^